Conversations with Dr. Ken Brown - Atrantil

Course Content

10/2/24 Watch the recording from the live webinar on Relieve Bloating and Abdominal Discomfort with Dr. Ken Brown and Shivan Sarna
1:11:59
SIBO/IMO/Hydrogen Sulfide: Clinical Pearls with Dr. Ken Brown and Shivan Sarna
1:08:29
In-depth Investigation Into SIBO, IMO, and Hydrogen Sulfide with Dr. Ken Brown & Shivan Sarna
1:34:00

1:11:59

Oh, I have I have one one request to the audience. Anybody in the audience is from Spokane, Washington. I would just like to know that because my daughter just accepted a full ride tennis scholarship to Gonzaga University yesterday. So and I know nothing about Spokane. So yeah.

Congratulations. Oh, I need to learn about Spokane if somebody's from Alright. Alright. Hey. That's great.

I know I know you guys were working really hard for years. Congratulations. It's amazing. Alright. Welcome one and all.

I'm Siobhan Sarna. I'm the founder of SIBO SOS and chronic condition rescue. I've done 11 summits. We're going in on the 11th summit February of next year. It is the science and wisdom of menopause.

So anything that I've had to deal with in my health or my friend's health, I have a mother with lymphoma. We did the lymph summit, body pain, fascia summit, gut, obviously, microbiome, SIBO summit. The conversations aren't being had in the typical doctor's office. I'm not talking about doctor Brown. He's one of the he's one of the ones where you can have these conversations, and he's gonna be bringing it up.

But in so many other scenarios, people aren't trained in this set of conversations in medical school. So I'm pro practitioner all the way, especially when they keep up with the research, which is basically impossible, but let's all give it a college try. And that when you walk in to the doctor and you guys are having a conversation, like what happened to me yesterday, and she looked at me and she goes, so what you got? Like, she knew. I come in prepared with all kinds of stuff.

She goes, oh, I love it when you come in because I know exactly what you need. And we between the 2 of us, we always get there. So I wish for you all that same kind of doctor patient relationship, and I wish all of you to go see doctor Brown. He is, very, very busy and has a waiting list and is in. If you're out of state, can they come see you, doctor Brown, or is it does it depend on insurance?

It depends on insurance. Texas law requires an in person visit, then it can be telemedicine. But After the first one. For some people I know in our community, they have found that worth it. They have gone to see you and then to telemedicine afterwards.

Okay. Enough of that. Doctor Brown, you have really innovated so many things in the world of IBS. You have, done research with doctor Pimentel. You have taken the research and gone into clinic with it and your own observations and then helped to transform lives with all of that amalgamized, is that the right way to say that word, in that in office experience.

You have created a very special, product called Autron teal with fascinating science. It's the only clinically shown product to relieve bloating, and we're gonna talk more about that. I'm gonna let you take take over, and thanks all for coming. We're gonna get you a coupon if you want some, but the main thing is learn from doctor Brown, and let's get some hope going. Yeah.

Before we Sarna, really quick with what you said when you went into your doctor and she said that, I actually have patients that I wait to see because they are so versed in their issues that they teach me. And I'm actually going to have one of them on my podcast. For instance, if anybody here has SIBO, like, so I know that there's an audience that has a lot of people that follow you that are brand new, a lot of people that listen to everything that you do. But, you know, we're seeing this combination of EDS Ehlers Danlos and, median arcuate ligament syndrome and things like that. I wait for my patients that know more about that, and then they come in and educate me.

So what you're doing is awesome. And please, doctors want to be informed. So anybody that has information, don't be shy of talking to your doctor and saying, I listened to Siobhan's webinar recently, and these are some of the things I wanna talk about. So I'm glad that your doctor listens to you. I hope I hope that's the case for everybody.

If you have a question, put it in the q and a box. How can they get ahold of you if, they feel like they have a complex case and wanna be, wanna apply for being on the podcast? Easiest thing is probably through social media, which is on Instagram. Just direct message. It's at kbmdhealth.

K b m d, like Ken Brown. Brown MD Health on Instagram is the easiest thing. Okay. Let me get that to everybody. Okay.

I'm gonna hand things over for you. Okay. And let's do it. Alright. Can can I share screen?

Yes. Please do. So refrain from chat from now on, guys. Put QAs in the q and a box, and, we will take it from there. Yep.

I'll hide. I'm not leaving. Let me one second. You hold on there for a second. I will not go anywhere.

I have to not quite share screen yet. Tell us the name of the tablets that are the, alternative, colonoscopy prep again. Is it Suco tab? It's called Su tab. It came out.

We're seeing good results with SuTab for people that have trouble with the volume. There's so many different ways to, do a bowel prep. You said make sure it's clear that what's coming out of you is clear. So As long as it's clear, it doesn't really matter. Exactly.

So it does whenever you get there. Right. Because they need to be able to see. And at one time I did it and it was suboptimal. And so instead of a 10 years later, I had to do it 5 years later.

But I was glad I got as far as I did because just the volume for me personally was too much. Okay. I've had 3 of them, and I've tried every bowel prep so that I can tell patients what my experience was. So, so for everybody that's joining here, I know that there's a lot of varying degrees of information and knowledge on this base, but I do have information that you probably have not heard before. Some of it will be a review, which is a good thing.

It's always good to go ahead and review things. So we're going to cover the gambit here and let me go ahead and share screen now. Okay. Let me start with this, and we all have pivotable moments throughout our lives. Mine took place 8 years ago.

A mother brought her 18 year old severely autistic child in to see me, and she told me that over the past 3 years as a young man, his autism had become markedly worse. He was verbal at one time, and now he'd become nonverbal. More importantly, he was actually having outbursts, sometimes violent outbursts, and when this would take place, it got so bad that he was removed from his autism day school where she would drop him off. It was so bad that she had to quit her job as a dermatologist. Now when she brought him in to see me, I felt a little bit guilty because I'm not an autism specialist, and she said I'm aware of that.

We've seen multiple autism specialists. We've been to multiple other specialists, but I brought him to you because what I did notice is that he has these outbursts after he eats, and it's after eating that she noticed this. So she was hoping that by bringing him to a gastroenterologist, maybe we can think of something. I went to examine him and his belly was very tympanic, full of air, and he was actually combative with me. Listening to it, the key was that 3 years before, he was better.

So because of that, I really felt that he had SIBO and we treated him. She brought him in 3 months later, and this young man, who was nonverbal, came in and said good morning to me. And I looked at her, and she said, I am bringing him back to tell you that this is the best he has been in years, and I just wanted you to know this. That has become my why. Oh my god.

By that is that that's when I realized 8 years ago how important gut health is to everything, including not just the body, but the brain. And so that's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna go over these different aspects, and I'm gonna show you how important it is that you keep your gut healthy. Doctor, we're just getting some feedback that your mic is a little bit uneven. I hear fine.

Joan was saying that. A couple other people have said that, but I hear him fine. So, is there any adjustment you can make or maybe just talk a little bit closer to your mic? Sorry. How does this sound here?

I'm using this mic right here instead of the MacBook. I anybody, what do you have? A scale 1 through 10, throw it into the chat for me, please. Well, it can be you have to keep talking, doctor. Yeah.

I'll just keep talking. So tell me, can everybody hear me okay if I'm talking like this? Is this Yes. It's 5050. It's like, okay.

No. It's 2080. 20 people are having a hard time. The rest of it is weird. Okay.

We've got it. I've got, standby. Beauty of trying to do the, the AV. Go. Alright.

So what we're gonna do is I Sarna review IBS and SIBO. I wanna discuss polyphenols, their structure and role, do a deeper dive into the metabolites and the microbiome, and then we are gonna review a science Siebecker natural solution to this. Now one of the things that I always have is that when I see a patient, they will go in to go see a doctor. And perhaps many people listening have had this happen to them. They go to a doctor, they get a full blood work done, they they might even get scopes, and then the doctor says, good news, it's just IBS.

That's what they hear. But the problem is they're still frustrated. They're still bloated. They might have constipation. They might have diarrhea.

And so many of them have brain fog and even anxiety. The problem is that IBS is actually a trash can diagnosis. It's a trash can diagnosis because this thing actually affects up to 20% of the people living in the United States, and the only diagnostic criteria is that you have pain relieved with going to the bathroom lasting 3 months, and you can have diarrhea or constipation. The problem is the most common symptom is bloating. It's not even included.

The real issue is that bloating is the most common symptom, but it's also the most important. The reason why I say that is because the symptoms of bloating is what I call the canary in the coal mine. Now the canary in the coal mine, I've given this, lecture before and I find that I'm dating myself when I say canary in a coal mine because a lot of people look at this and go why in the world would you even take a bird into a coal mine? In the early 20th century, when coal miners would go down and get coal, if carbon monoxide rise, the canary would pass out, and that was the warning sign for them to leave. So I'm saying that bloating is the warning sign.

Now you'll notice my canary, to be a little bit more approachable in today's modern times, has an iPhone with it down in the coal mine, and it's actually on x probably posting that there's bad treatment of canaries and also that we should probably have a greener source of fuel. This bloating is so common that people just accept it. And like I just said, when you go to see a doctor and they say, good news, it's just IBS, there's a high likelihood that you may be given a prescription for an antidepressant. Now this is eerily similar if you went and saw a doctor in, like, the 19 sixties or seventies with a stomach ulcer. If you went and saw a doctor, there's a chance that he could be smoking a cigarette while he's talking to you in the 19 sixties.

But what they would say is that your ulcer is being caused by too much stress and anxiety. Most likely, you'd be told to relax and be given a Valium or something like that. Then in 1983, this ulcer this is a picture of an ulcer in a stomach. This ulcer right here was discovered that it's actually caused by a bacteria. A bacteria called h pylori.

I say it's an eerily similar time because the same exact thing is happening now. Now Siobhan did mention that doctor Mark Pimentel published a pivotal paper in 2011, and I was one of the investigators in this study where he showed that the symptoms of IBS are actually caused by bacteria growing where it shouldn't be, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. That was the paper that allowed XIFAXAN to get its FDA approval. So for people that are fairly new to this, just know that we now are realizing that IBS is Siebecker. And what's happening is in the small bowel, it should be sterile.

Your bacteria known as your microbiome should be living in your colon. You have over a 100 trillion different bacteria over a 1000 species, and we should be considering that microbiome like a vital organ. Once he discovered that bacteria could be doing this, now we actually have a rationale as to how IBS can have opposing symptoms like diarrhea or constipation. So we now know that if a type of bacteria or its own kingdom called a methanogen, what happens is as the bacteria breaks down the food, it produces hydrogen, then these methanogens can produce methane gas. Methane slows everything down, allows more bacteria to grow, and then when that happens, you actually have this vicious cycle of bloating, pain and constipation.

Now we have a reason for the IBS constipated person. Same thing about diarrhea. If the hydrogen's being produced and you have sulfite reducing bacteria, now we have hydrogen sulfide. The hydrogen sulfide is what can actually cause diarrhea. So here we have the explanation for bloating, diarrhea, and constipation.

What we now know is that the problem is not just the bloating, gas, and diarrhea. When you have SIBO, your body does not like this. It creates an inflammatory response. It's not just IBS. It's not just SIBO.

This overgrowth is not normal and your body will react to it. The issue is is that SIBO causes inflammation. Now this is a very busy slide, but basically what happens is that when you have bacteria growing in the intestinal lumen, you have cells that sample it. And they reach up and they grab it and they bring it back and they hand it to immune cells. This is fantastic if you go out and, I don't know, go to side and eat some chicken sashimi or something, some raw chicken.

You get salmonella. The body sees it, goes, oh, we have to get rid of this, mounts an immune response, and then kills that salmonella. The problem is is that when this happens, the body relaxes the tight junction. It's called intestinal permeability, otherwise known as leaky gut. And when you have leaky gut, it allows more of these soldiers to go out and kill the bacteria.

This leaky gut creates more of an inflammatory process. When you have SIBO, it's doing this constantly. So you have this constant checking on the lumen and then creating low level inflammation. It also has a direct contact to the brain. So your gut has its own nervous system and it sends a signal directly to the brain.

What does this actually result in? So now we know that there are multiple studies to show that this intestinal inflammation, SIBO, can lead to depression, dementia, fibromyalgia, pelvic pain, neuropathy, skin issues like rosacea and eczema, heart disease, even obesity and diabetes, and autoimmune disease. There's one common theme here, and this is inflammation. Inflammation is the root cause of disease. Now the really interesting thing is how many people are suffering from gut issues and they're suffering from inflammatory issues.

This is super sad. Not sad as in like boohoo sad, but we're talking sad like the standard American diet. So if this is a typical plate that people are eating, you'll notice that the most colorful things on here are actually the soda cans. When you are eating a typical standard American diet, this is very high in inflammatory fatty acids. It's high in high fructose corn syrup which leads to obesity.

The processed seed oils can create local inflammation on the intestinal lining. And then you have emulsifiers which can actually affect your microbiome, and it's low in iron. The low in iron's really important as Allison and children because this iron is important for development. Now you can argue that if you read a lot of, well let's just call it big food data, that they're saying there's nothing wrong with this. But a study was published in 2021 and this looked at mental health in children over time.

What you will see is that right around 1978, high fructose corn syrup was introduced into the food system and that obesity curve just started rising. And then in the eighties, we started seeing glyphosate being sprayed on everything and we also started seeing these highly processed seed oils. Both of those were introduced and we start seeing a rise in depression, in ADHD. This is not a coincidence. And this doesn't just affect kids, it actually affects everyone.

Because what a lot of people don't realize is is that your brain is dependent on neurotransmitters, specifically dopamine, serotonin, and GABA. Now GABA comes from an amino acid called glutamate. Glutamate gets converted into GABA by an enzyme in your intestinal lining called glutamate decarboxylase. If you have inflammation, you have less of this. So in other words, you're not converting as much of the glutamate to GABA.

GABA works like a traffic cop. It slows everything down. This explains why anxiety is through the roof. 90% of the serotonin, serotonin is a neurotransmitter that keeps you happy. It also enhances sleep, and it suppresses appetite, is made from the amino acid, tryptophan.

And tryptophan is converted by an enzyme called tryptophan hydroxylase. Same thing. It's found in the intestinal lining. If you have gut inflammation, you are not producing enough serotonin. Same thing for dopamine.

Dopamine is the reward and pleasure neurotransmitter. This is important for motor control and development and motivation and drive. The amino acid, Tyrosine, is converted by Tyrosine Hydroxylase. Much of the Tyrosine Hydroxylase is in the intestinal lining. When you have inflammation, that goes down.

So what I'm getting at here is I call this my golden triangle. Simon Sinek wrote a book called Sarna With Why. He coined a term called the Golden Circle. I call this the golden triangle because your gut talks to your brain, and it talks to your immune system. They talk back and forth, but the gut is the most pivotal part of this to keep your brain and your immune system healthy.

And as Siobhan kind of pointed out in the intro, a lot of times doctors are not really paying attention to this. A lot of my colleagues are still saying, good news, it's just IBS, here's an antidepressant. This means, like everyone on this webinar right now, this means that most people get frustrated. They go to doctor Google or now they go to doctor Chat GPT. There's so much information out there it becomes extremely confusing and very frustrating.

So I have a lot of people that will go to health food stores and they just stare at a wall. I call this the the I don't know, the symbol of confusion when somebody's staring at a wall of supplements like this. I work with a lot of retailers, I'm like if you see somebody standing like this go up to them and ask them, Do you bloat after you eat? Do you have urgency or diarrhea? Do you have abdominal pain?

Do you have constipation? And do you have any brain fog or anxiety? The problem for this person is if they're staring at this wall of supplements there are limitations to the current therapies. These limitations are that really nothing addresses both the small bowel and colon, nothing helps bloating effectively, Nothing decreases methane or hydrogen. And there are no effective pharmaceutical options.

So the ideal product would be something that is all natural, works in the small bowel and the colon, eliminates methane and hydrogen and improves the microbiome. And fortunately, this actually exists Sarna this is my baby and it's called Atron teal. So what is Atron teal? Atron teal is a patented polyphenol blend made of kiracha, Colorado, horse chestnut, and peppermint leaf. It has been proven in clinical trials to help 4 out of 5 people with bloating.

It is all natural, non GMO, and it is NSF certified for sport. That's really important to me because I got 2 collegiate athletes and NSF certified for sport means that they can take Audratil. So how does this work? Well when you have SIBO, you have bacteria growing where it shouldn't be. So imagine you have the bacteria there, then you eat something, specifically carbohydrates, well the bacteria start to break it down before you can.

Once they start breaking it down they release this hydrogen gas. When the hydrogen gas is there a different archaebacter can come in and it loves the hydrogen gas because it absorbs the hydrogen gas Sarna through an enzymatic process produces methane. Then this methane builds up, slows everything down, and allows more bacteria to grow and now we have chronic SIBO. The way that Atron teal works is that the first ingredient, the peppermint, calms everything down. After it calms it down the kebbracho which is a very large stable complex tannin has these hydroxyl bonds on the outside.

What that means is it actually soaks up the hydrogen and starves the other bacteria. It has the natural ability to work as an antimicrobial and one of the only things, including pharmaceuticals, that can actually weaken the archaeobacter. When that happens the archaeobacter gets weakened, we're starving it and then the horse chestnut kills more bacteria, and it can actually shut off the enzyme that's actually producing this. So that's how I developed it. When I was doing the original research with doctor Pimentel, that's where we found this big hole that nothing in the pharmaceutical industry could help.

So we did a few studies on this. First one was a randomized placebo controlled trial where we looked at Atron teal in people with constipation, and we showed an 88% overall quality of life improvement, a 78% total bloating score improvement, and we improved their constipation by 36%. I then did an open label study where I call this the worst of the worst. The only people that I enrolled in this were people that had failed all pharmaceutical options. They had failed all natural options as well.

And even in this really tough to treat, we had their constipation scores improved from 45% to 77, and we continue to show incredible bloating score improvement from 20% to 91%. Now, Siobhan, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but just last year Northwestern University actually did their own study on Atron Teal, and they didn't they did it, on their own. They we later found out they wanted to do it because so many of their patients were already on it. And what they determined is that they looked at people that had emo, intestinal methanogen overgrowth. And at 4 weeks, the most robust symptom improvements were belly pain, gas, bloating, and constipation, consistent with the presumed effects of Otrantil in patients with emo.

Relief was endorsed by the majority of individuals taking otrontil, and the conclusion was that otrontil may be an effective natural treatment for symptoms of emo. Now this is just Hang on for just a second. I have people asking me if I have a coupon because they know I always give coupons, so I do, and it is in the chat. So depending on how many bottles you buy, and there's a protocol that I know Ken's gonna talk to us about, but you can get up to 25% when you use my link. I appreciate it.

It doesn't change your price, but it does help to support this work. And, also, I have a special bonus for you. If you buy by 8 PM tonight, you also get one of doctor Brown's previous master classes with us. That's one of the most enlightening ones I've ever done, which is a big statement. So I'll talk to you about that in a second.

But if you wanted to grab some, that's the way to do it. Okay. For sure. And, yeah, for everyone on here, like, we run specials, but nobody nobody gets close to the special that Siobhan has. So she's our she's our queen of SIBO, and we treat her as such.

So Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay. The one thing about this Northwestern study when they went ahead and presented it just recently got published in the American College of Gastroenterology. Darren Brenner is the chief of the department, and I went and met with him, because I was just so impressed that they did a study on this.

And I explained actually how it worked because he had no idea. He just said, listen. We just wanted to do a study because so many people were taking this. Once I explained the mechanism that you all just saw, he's like, that's incredible. He goes, I wanna tell you something.

We do drug studies all the time. The biggest thing is we had no side effects. We had no dropouts. Because this is incredible. And then I explained to him, well, what's beautiful about this is that it's actually good for you.

These are made of polyphenols. None of the participants knew how it worked or that it's actually good for them. Because what polyphenols are is that these are the molecules that make fruits and vegetables colorful. This contains one of the largest and most stable polyphenols. So Atron teal has horse chestnut peppermint, but Quebracho Colorado is the key ingredient.

It's the key ingredient because that's how we got our patent. We actually have a patent on these ingredients, which is why you will not be able to find this in any other supplement out there. That's what makes it really unique. We currently have patents in 24 countries on this. When you have these large stable polyphenols, the science has shown that you have decrease in the inflammatory pathways.

So not only do we bring down the methane, bring down the harmful bacteria, but there's a pathway called NF kappa beta and TNF alpha, those go down, but mother nature knows what she's doing. At the same time you have these anti inflammatory pathways. It's an antioxidant. This is what makes the Mediterranean diet antiaging. There's something called the sirtuin 1 pathway that repairs your DNA.

And the nrf2 pathway is a potent anti inflammatory pathway while producing things like short chain fatty acids and improving certain bacteria, like increasing acromancia. But the key here is that not all polyphenols are created equal. So when you think about this, the way this happens is that these polyphenols, it's all chemistry. It starts out as a small molecule like this catechol molecule. Then a few hydroxyl bonds are added on.

It becomes gallic acid. Then you add a benzene ring, and now we have a recognizable molecule, resveratrol. You add another benzene ring, and you've got quercetin. You put a few quercetins together, and now you have green tea extract. You put a bunch of those together, and now we've got the world's largest, most stable, naturally occurring polyphenol, kebbracho, Colorado.

So this kebbracho tannin has all these other molecules in it. So this is why I chose this particular tree to use it as the ingredient because it is the most stable complex polyphenol. If you were to think about it, the way that I explain it to my patients is imagine a large Lego model. In this case, it's a Lego castle. The Lego castle goes through your digestive tract intact.

While it's going through, it's getting rid of bacteria, it's soaking up the hydrogen, then it makes it to your microbiome in your colon intact. Once it's there, what your microbiome does is it actually disassembles this large LIGO model into smaller molecules, smaller phenolic compounds. This is where the metabolites come in. So for those of you who are very familiar with SIBO, this is something that is fairly new in the research. It's the metabolites that are the key.

Metabolites like short chain fatty acids and all these other metabolites. We worked with a team in Spain where they did a study and they looked at the capacity of kibbracho and chestnut to be both digested and then Pimentel. Meaning what happens when it hits your microbiome. So in other words, they took kibbracho and chestnut, they put it through a digestive tract, and what they showed is is that over 99% of it remained intact. Then they put it with healthy volunteer stool, so they put it with healthy microbiome.

Then doctor Molina, the head of that study, looked at what was actually being produced. So it was just Kebracho and Chestnut, and what she showed was there was tons of these metabolites coming out, including short chain fatty acids and other recognizable things. For instance, the microbial metabolites that came out were quercetin, green tea extract, ellagic acid, and Urolithin a. I keep saying short chain fatty acids because that's one of the most important things to control inflammation in your body. They did another study.

They were so impressed with this that they said, well, let's look and see what happens if we compare the short chain fatty acid production of cabocho and chestnut versus the gold standard which is inulin fiber. When you look at studies, discussing the microbiome most researchers use inulin fiber because it is the most studied, it's considered the gold standard. And what they demonstrated very surprisingly, is that the total short chain fatty acid production with kibbracho and chestnut was 5 and a half times more than what inulin did. And the butyrate was 3.3 times more than what the inulin did. So for years years years we talked about how fiber is the most beneficial thing for your microbiome and this actually shows that really your microbiome likes Siebecker, it loves large stable polyphenols.

So I mentioned that the study that they looked at was that it was with healthy volunteers. In other words, they looked at it with good microbiome. So what would kebirachos and chestnut do on the microbiome itself? They published 2 studies. These are both human studies.

28 day studies where they gave 2 groups of people, kibbracho and chestnut. And in one they actually did it as a food additive Shivan the other one they actually did it as a supplement because they wanted to see if there was a similar comparison in the digestive process. In both studies, after 28 days in healthy subjects, they took healthy subjects and they were able to improve their microbial diversity, increasing beneficial bacteria like acromancia. And they also demonstrated a decrease in inflammatory microbiomes that are known to be correlated with obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, and colon cancer. So this the cabracho and chestnut improved microbial diversity and increased the metabolites.

They noted that there was a significant increase in the short chain fatty acids in both human studies. So what this kind of comes down to is as we think about this, on the right of this slide is really how your microbiome should be. It should be a lush tropical forest. It should be a rainforest of all different kinds of plants. On the left side, unfortunately, is how many of our microbiomes are.

Because if you eat a highly processed food diet as discussed with emulsifiers And there's now artificial sweeteners that have been shown to decrease the microbial diversity, or you take antibiotics, or you Mark not getting good sleep. It can all decimate your microbiome. So really, you have to remember that you need the right microbial diversity to produce these bioactive metabolites. And these bioactive metabolites are the future of where a lot of the science is going. So a healthy microbiome is the key to unlocking all the benefits of this.

In fact, you really have to wonder, is a diet actually healthy for you if you don't have the right microbiome? So I call this the January phenomenon because I have patients that come to me all the time, and they eat a horrible diet their whole life, they survive on McDonald's and processed foods, and what's interesting is is that they crave it because they're basically self selecting a microbiome that's sending signals to eat more of that. So they turn over a New Leaf and they say, I'm gonna eat, change my diet, and ultimately sometimes they feel worse. And this is the thing, when you don't have the right microbiome, don't give up if you're trying to change your diet and eat healthier. If you're gonna do vegan or eat more polyphenols or eat more fiber, a lot of people feel worse because their microbiome isn't ready for it.

So to get the most out of your diet, you have to have the right microbiome. That's the key. Now using that same concept, you really have to wonder, are supplements even working without the right microbiome? Now I just came back from Toronto. We were at a meeting, and it's the, Canadian, National Health Food Meeting.

It's a huge, huge meeting, and there's so many people selling supplements. And, you know, let's just look at a few of the common ones here. Curcumin, turmeric, resveratrol, quercetin, berberine, lycopene, hesperidin, green tea, luteolin, apigenin, ginkgo biloba. All of those are polyphenols, all of those are poorly absorbed, they have poor bioavailability. That is how mother nature intended it.

Because when you have the right microbiome that's when you get the benefit from all of those. So at some point if you don't have the right microbiome Sarna it also might be why the studies are so all over the map because somebody may take one of these and not notice anything. Other people may get tremendous benefit. It's probably because their microbiome is able to break these down into these beneficial metabolites. So we have all of these products where people say ours is more bioavailable and so on.

The reality is I'm not even sure it's supposed to be bioavailable. Quick side note, in my literature, we do see that people have liver failure from a few of these products. Specifically, the most recent one has been turmeric. And it could be that people are trying to make turmeric super available, and it's not supposed to be. The liver is not supposed to break down the whole molecule.

It's supposed to use the metabolites. So it's these metabolites that are the key to everything. So I said in the very beginning that the ideal product would be all natural. It would work in the small bowel and the colon. It would eliminate SIBO producing gases like methane and hydrogen, and it would improve the microbiome.

Check, check, check, and check. So this is why I'm so excited about this. This is why Northwestern did their own study because so many people were just showing up already taking it. Now as far as dosing, if you have IBS or SIBO, been labeled as having IBS or SIBO, we do know that it does take some time because this is a chronic condition. We have found that if you take 2 capsules 3 times a day for at least 30 days, that you're going to get all those benefits.

We call this the 6:30 plan. Six capsules for 30 days. Do that, get rid of those symptoms, and then you can go to a maintenance dose. Something I did not mention earlier is if you have trigger foods. So I have gluten intolerance.

When I eat gluten, I blow up like a balloon and I have diarrhea later. What we do know is we had a PhD on our podcast discussing the exact mechanism of this, but the polyphenols and a tranetal actually wrap a little gel around the gliadin and gluten and you don't react to it as much. And this goes for other trigger foods that people have. So if you have certain trigger foods, take 2 capsules before you eat it and then 2 capsules after. And if you even don't have any of those symptoms, for maintenance, 2 capsules every day to get your daily dose of polyphenols and feed your microbiome.

Now one of the most common questions I get is, well, I'll just eat it, which is typically what I tell everybody is make sure you have the diet that's gonna work for you. Make sure that you that you eat a great diet first. Supplements are there to supplement the diet. The problem is we know that this is dose dependent. And if you want to try and eat the amount of polyphenols in 2 doses of Atratil, that's 5 bowls of berries.

That amount of fructose will cause its own symptoms in a lot of people. So if you want to eat 5 bowls of berries every day then that's 2 doses of Atrantoel. Two caps, 3 times a day for digestive distress, 2 capsules every day for your daily polyphenols, and then 2 capsules before and after trigger foods. And we are all here for one Allison, and this is Siobhan. So if you want to support Siobhan and get the biggest discount that you can get anywhere on the Internet, go to a tran teal.com/chobhan.

Thanks, Kim. Thank you. My husband's texting me. Thank you so much. That is so kind of you.

Again, it doesn't change your price. It just helps support our work and you and you guys actually get a better discount. I have so many questions for you, Ken Brown. We Mark going to get these questions in. Are you ready?

Wait 14 minutes, sir. Thank you. That was a beautiful presentation. Please pop some love into the chat for Doctor. Brown.

Petunia is here with me. She says hello. What if somebody is in Canada or the UK? Oh, okay. Awesome.

We have to go quickly because I have 60 questions, which we obviously Oh, okay. Canada. We're we're in Canada now. We're in Shoppers and a bunch of retail locations there. I just came back from their show.

We're all over Canada now. Canadians seem to love us. Awesome. Can you take it long term? I have been taking it for 9 years, and I'm 84 years old.

So Oh my god. Something. Okay. Question. Isn't it so I'm gonna say it's gonna be funny.

Like, isn't it just food so it would be safe to take, like, eating berries like you were just showing us? Yeah. So if you can get away with that much polyphenols concentrated, you can take food, but the problem is Right. You can't take it concentrated like this. Right.

What we're talking about is sort of we're trying to get rid of a problem. So and it's also, like, if you want it if it's it's food. They're capsules full of food. Right? It's yeah.

It's these are so when everybody says, oh, blueberries are good for you. Every time I hear anybody say anything, they say, oh, it's it's got the proanthocyanidins. Proanthocyanidins are a are a large polyphenol. You put several of those together, you get the kevacho. Okay.

Alright. Can I get it in New Zealand? Yes. You can. Alright.

I don't exactly know how, but I do know that we, that people get in New Zealand all the time. Okay. And UK, yes. We're actually, we're starting to manufacture in Europe so that they can get it directly there. But, yes, you can get in the UK.

We do have a a lot of people getting it there. Okay. Great. Thanks, Joanne. I appreciate that.

She ordered but didn't realize, that I was involved with you. Here's the thing. Not everything works for everybody. No one in this podcast right here or anywhere is trying to convince you of anything. There's some science for you to evaluate.

Think there's a cynicism sometimes. People think all we're trying to do is get you to buy something. You can buy it on your own without me, without a conversation, without a discount. I'm good with that. It's totally up to you.

We're just trying to help you. Okay. Let me say one thing to that. Yeah. Compliance is the key because this is what I get.

Somebody takes some I somebody will take and this goes with drugs also. This goes totally with drugs. They'll say, I'll say, did this prescription work? No. It didn't work.

How much did you take? I took one dose and I didn't like it. Okay. What we're saying is that our studies show that if you do 2, 3 times a day for 30 days, you have a 4 out of 5 chance getting markedly Siebecker. And the those people because so all I do is seem to treat the worst of the worst of the worst now.

And even these people that I throw everything in the kitchen sink at, we try everything. And I'm doing a lot of alternative stuff trying to get this thing to work, including including prescriptions. What we're seeing, and this is what doctor Brenner told me at Northwestern, is that it makes sense that over time if you improve the microbiome the body will heal itself. So sticking with it is the key, compliant dosing. Okay.

Have you ever heard of SIBO and macular degeneration correlation? Wow. No. I actually have not, but that's an interesting thing to look into. Okay.

Sorry about that, Colleen. It sounds hideous. I'm so sorry. Can Atratil cause serious die off after 6 weeks of taking it? So die off is a real thing.

We know that. After 6 weeks that would be a little atypical. I don't have a good explanation for that one. It could be that the microbiome is actually starting to shift and that's when you're really starting to change the microbial diversity. Maybe back off a little bit and just take 2 capsules a day and let your microbiome catch up.

Okay. Does this work if you're on statins? Yes. Okay. Let's see.

Does it work for someone with severely slow motility of 96 hours? So severely slow motility could be due to methane, and over time, it will help with that. If slow motility is an idiopathic constipation type thing, then you're probably gonna need a little something to help you move as, something that'll help as a laxative of some form because that could be just how you're built. Right. It could be extra colon, that kind of thing.

It could be a lot of different accents. Yeah. I met can Chestnut and Autron Teal kill h pylori and Pseudomonas? Pseudomonas. Guys, put your questions, Kevin.

Put it in the q and a box because I'm I can't look there in the beanie. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Go ahead. We have not done any studies on that. H pylori can be a little bit tough to kill. I've got a whole separate discussion on h pylori where I think we're being a little too aggressive trying to kill it because there's parts of the world where 80% of the people actually have it and it doesn't do anything, so that's a whole separate discussion. Pseudomonas, it oh, I'll have to look, but there are there are whatever they're called.

They've got petri plates where they can show the antimicrobial activity of these different natural antimicrobials. So I'm gonna say I don't know on that one. He's not saying you have to stop doing any other supplements. That's not can you take probiotics on a? You can take probiotics, but if you look at some of the protocols that some of these other experts say that you have to remember that if you do have bad Siebecker, that taking traditional probiotics, and I say traditional, especially the lactobacillus type, I believe that Doctor.

Satish Rao, who's been on your show before, and he did publish a paper where he showed that people that had SIBO and took traditional probiotics, they had an increase in anxiety, and it was due to lactic acid being produced. Doctor Pimentel, at least as of you talk to him more than I do, but, you know, for a long time, they recommended not doing probiotics during treatment. I'm a big fan of sporebiotics, though. So I guess spore. We we talk about that all the time.

Okay, guys. This we're kinda getting really, like, wildly overwhelmed with questions right now. So slow the roll a little bit. And if it's in the q and a box, like, it's in the chat box, I literally cannot look at it. Okay.

But I'm gonna here I am. I have IMO hydrogen levels normal. I find Atradiol reduces my diarrhea and actually makes me somewhat more constipate, not severely, so welcome relief from diarrhea. I I thought it was just for IMO. What's is does it work for all kinds of SIBO?

Yes. Totally. So the unique thing the reason why I did the original study was because we had nothing available for IMO. As it turns out that the same mechanism absorbs the hydrogen, starves the other bacteria and gets rid of the other bacteria that can produce hydrogen sulfide. I have seen that in people that do a lot of breath tests that it can Shivan.

It's just a snapshot. So I go into the doctor and getting one blood pressure, depending on what's going on, you may have a little higher methane one time, you may have a little higher hydrogen sulfide, depending on which bacteria is actually using the hydrogen. I'm 26 Sarna have you see pancolitis and EOE. I'm on remicade infusion every 6 weeks. I'm so sorry.

Will autotel go well with remicade? Could it possibly heal me, and could I get off remicade? Doctor Brown is not your doctor, and that is a set of very serious circumstances. I will ask him for just an educational comment for us. All my inflammatory bowel disease patients, Crohn's and ulcerative colitis, all are on Atron teal because we know that those anti inflammatory things that are there, whether you can get off REMICADE, that is a very, very hot topic.

I do suggest that you look at my podcast where I had, Sebastian Dennison on, a doctor who's an expert on LDN, and I'm starting to use a lot of low dose naltrexone in combination for this. I love low dose naltrexone, and you can find out more at ldnresearchtrust.org. Ldnresearchtrust.org. Tell everybody what it is just real fast. So low dose naltrexone, and this is the beauty of having, like, a podcast where you can have people come on and explain these kind of things.

Low dose naltrexone is a drug that was initially developed called naltrexone, and it is an opioid blocker. So it's what the police walk around with if they find somebody that has a fentanyl overdose. It was discovered that at very low doses, it actually helps control the immune system. It works on something called a toll like receptor. So doctor Dennison told me that what they have seen is is that it actually augments the biologic effect of REMICADE and HUMIRA and these other things.

I have to go on October 16th, the National Compounding the International Compounding Pharmacy Society, after watching that podcast, has asked me to come and give a presentation over exactly what we're talking about today, and I'm gonna explain a little bit how LDN plus Atranquil can really augment each other. Oh, that's phenomenal. We have to go we've do you okay. We have 5 more minutes, so we're gonna just do some rapid fire here. When do you recommend digestive enzymes?

Oh, this is a really fun subject for me because what what I have found out is that in my people remember when I said that I just treat the really, really, really bad people all the time? As it turns out, when you have this intestinal inflammation, not only do you lower those enzymes that can produce those neurotransmitters, but the signaling to the pancreas can actually decrease pancreatic enzyme production and destroy some of the enzymes due to the inflammatory process. So I use, people that people that don't respond, I use pancreatic enzymes to actually help with that. Now the problem is that the prescription enzymes are from porcine and over the counter ones are actually fermented from fungi. And the I I don't see this as good effect on over the counter digestive enzymes as I do with prescription, but the prescriptions are so expensive.

So I actually like using digestive enzymes to try and augment it. If you don't have success with over the counter ones, talk to your doctor and see if they can give you some samples of some prescription ones to see if it helps. And I do have some benefit with that with really stubborn SIBO people. Okay. So, yes, if you're IBS diarrhea dominant, yes, it seems it it can help.

Yes. Yes. Two capsules before and after eating. How many minutes before taking the first bite and how many minutes after taking the last bite? Oh, wow.

So I do it whenever. Yeah. Don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Just think it just That type of vigilance, man.

I'm with you. Yeah. The the beauty is since it doesn't get absorbed, it's Sarna ride with that food regardless, and it's gonna really try to help the whole process. Okay. Good.

Let's see. Oh my gosh. You guys have such great questions. I'm sorry that we don't have more time. Let's see.

Can you take digestion distress protocol and the food trigger protocol at the same time? I'm not really sure what that means. So They sound cool. So sure. They sound cool.

Okay. I am on LINZESS and several supplements. Should I stop taking the LINZESS with an Onetranil? No. There's no need to stop taking LINZESS with Onetranil.

Here's a little, whatever it's called. Here's a little pearl. If you so LINZESS in in my experience, LINZESS either works way too much and unpredictable or doesn't work at all. As it turns out, LINZESS is a peptide and what they have said before, and I've gone head to head with their scientific liaisons on this, when I have really severe constipation, not me, my patients, they actually recommend taking LINZESS with a little fat. And I asked them to explain why, and they said, oh, well, it helps with, getting it to work better.

So as it turns out in my own experiment, LINZESS to become active has to be cleaved, and I believe it is lipase that does it. So I go back to my pancreatic enzyme. When I have somebody that is not responding to LINZESS, I have them take a little pancreatic enzyme and it works probably too good. So LINZESS is one of those things. If it works great for you right now, keep taking it.

If it doesn't work at all or if it's too unpredictable, it's gonna be related to something about the digestive enzymes. Okay. And so it's lipase, did you just say? I believe it's lipase because what ends up happening is that it your stomach produces lipase also. Okay.

And so that's that's the that's the enzyme for fat for fat? It's the enzyme for fat. Correct. Okay. If you don't see changes in 30 days, should I continue?

My suggestion is to to, yes, continue, but also when people come into me and they have not seen any changes, I ask one question, are you bloated when you wake up? And if they go, yes. I wake up bloated, then that tells me that's not so much small bowel. What we're dealing with more is the Allison, and we really need to focus on the colon. So taking Otrontal and continuing to take it is only gonna benefit both your brain, the metabolites Sarna all that, but we can fix you really probably need something to help move the colon along a little bit more.

If you wake up with a flat belly and then eat a carbohydrate rich meal and you blow up like a balloon, we know that that's in the small bowel. Okay. Can the capsules be sprinkled on food or mixed in water? Okay. This is kind of a tough one because we I I do have a lot of, patients that can't swallow capsules or, if they're on the autism spectrum disorder, they don't do well with capsules.

It's not gonna hurt, but it is tough to take because it's such it's such an astringent molecule. It's very difficult. I have patients that have tried all different kinds of things. I have been told that grape juice seems to be the easiest thing to do it with or maybe a little apple sauce. Okay.

Is it a prokinetic? No. It is not a prokinetic Yeah. Directly, but as doctor Brenner explained to me, if you produce these metabolites, that becomes the prokinetic like butyrate. Do you is it okay if you take EO if you have EOE?

It is as long as you can swallow the capsules if you don't have trouble swallowing it. Is the tannin a stimulant? It is not. So this is, it gets confused with white tibaracho, which actually has yohimbine in it, which is a stimulant. Totally different animal.

Totally different plant. Totally different tree. Okay. It is time. What are the chances of an allergic reaction?

As I said, you can be anyone can be allergic to anything. So are you talking about allergic reaction? Were you needing an EpiPen? Are you talking about a flare? Are you talking about die off?

There's a lot of different that can happen. Here's the deal. If this appeals to you, I definitely think you should try it. People have had phenomenal results. People have had miraculous results.

I've seen it where people feel the miracle, if you will, which is not a medical term, like, within 3 days. And then I've seen people go, you know what? I'm just gonna do it for a month because I saw doctor Brown talk about doing it consistently for a month, and then they start to see the changes. Not everything works for everyone. Done that disclaimer.

I'm done. I thank you so much for being here. It's definitely worth a try. I'll say I'll say one other thing to that. Okay.

Sometimes people can be sensitive, meaning that they take pills and it gets sensitive. So if you take it and you feel that it hurts, take it with food, and then most people can do well with it. Okay. Great. And, yes, you can take it with a prokinetic.

Is there anything it can't be taken with? That seems to be a theme. Can I take it with this? Can I take it with this? Is there anything it can't be or shouldn't be taken with?

Yes. So Great. As as a clinician, anything that has a narrow therapeutic window, meaning if you're on anti rejection drugs that you have to have that thing perfect. If you're on antiarrhythmic drugs that that the window has to be perfect, and if you're on blood thinners. And the only reason why is because we've never studied it, and the risks definitely outweigh the benefits in those three cases.

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. I don't know if you really do you have to leave, doc?

Because I just I just No. Some business. Okay. Can I do 10 more minutes? Sure.

Yes. Okay. Does this work with people who have Candida or SIFO? Okay. So Candida, Doctor.

Rao was the first person to actually coin that term SIFO because he did a culture on it, a lot of the other SIBO experts are kind of questioning it, My feeling is that there's overlap. Cabracho has antifungal properties, but my belief is that since the fungus itself does not produce these same gases, it's a decomposing organism. It actually produces the carbon that then can be used. So they can work together. You can have an abundance you can have an abundance of Candida which won't be contributing to the symptoms, but it can feed the bacteria.

And I bring this up because I'm trained in an era where we didn't have AIDS treatment, and we had we had people on chemotherapeutic drugs, and their immune systems were so suppressed that I would scope them and they would have candida from their esophagus coating their stomach all the way through their small bowel and they didn't have bloating. They were miserable for other reasons, so that's that's why I go okay I think that there's a component with it and it probably has some overlap, but it's not the root cause. Okay. Fast, is there any liver issues with long term use of Ochratil? Yes or no?

We have not seen any liver issues. Okay. Let's see. Okay. I'm bloated and no constipation.

Will O'Shaughnessy cause diarrhea? Should not cause diarrhea unless you're having a die off or your microbiome is shifting and creating more hydrogen sulfide once it gets there. Okay. Mark is saying I have IMO. I'm on my 3rd round of Entratil plus Allison over several months.

It's amazing. It works. Thanks, Barb, for that. Appreciate it. Let's see.

Let's see. Somebody's doctor gave it to them as a prokinetic. That doctor is not educated in this particular item then. I will say this. One thing really quick.

I'm sorry to keep interrupting with, like, weird anecdotes. What I get is a whole lot of people that come in and they have a diagnosis of what's called gastroparesis, which means that their stomach doesn't empty. And some of them I just saw somebody today where their doctor put them on a drug called Reglan, which can cause neurologic side effects, but then the first thing I asked is, do you bloat after you eat? Yes. So if you have SIBO and you've been labeled as gastroparesis, what happens is your small bowel distends with gas.

It sends a signal to the stomach to not empty. So your doctor actually may be saying we're going to fix your gastroparesis by correcting your small bowel. That's the prokinetic component of it. Okay. If if acromancy is too high, astratil is still recommended in Siebecker.

Are they related? Achromant so the only way that acromancy would be too high would be like on a GI MAP test, which Exactly. Which is one of these things that we can make the test. We don't really know what to do with it. I think you should just be very proud you have high acromancia.

We know it's good for you. Yes. Exactly. Let's see. How do we fix the root problem so we don't have to rely on taking this Atratil product?

Well, first of all, there's a ton of underlying causes, which could be causing you to have SIBO or IMO or hydrogen sulfide. You have to fix the migrating motor complex. K. If you don't know what that is, get my book Healing SIBO. Come on over to cbosos.com.

Get some of our other webinars at cbosos. Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh, hold on. Hold on. Okay. If you order, and send me the proof of purchase tonight by 8, you do get thinking outside the box with doctor Ken Brown, which is I'm gonna be truthful and fully transparent like I always am.

It's a couple of years old, and it's still one of my very, very favorite things that we've ever done in Siebecker SLS. It is entertaining. It is energizing. You'll laugh. You'll cry.

It's a phenomenal, phenomenal class. So if you do go ahead and pick it up by your bottles, by, 8 o'clock EST tonight, info at cbosos.com. You just have to send us your proof of purchase, and we'll get you that link. Okay? People have access to some of the other stuff we did?

Because sometimes I've gone on Siobhan's show just because I get excited about something, and she's like, okay. This is really sciency. And I'm like, I'm just excited to share it. I think one of the last times, like, we had people bleeding from the ear with the science. I think they got over it.

They got over it. Some people loved it. Some people were like, Shivan, I just can't do it. I love it, but I can't. Okay.

So now that that I'm sharing with you, if you buy by 8 PM, it's like the perfect balance. Okay. Let's see. How do people respond with the peppermint in Ashran Teal? Hi, Joanne.

So a lot of people that have had peppermint before, it's always peppermint oil, and that can sometimes lead to some acid reflux. We specifically use the peppermint leaf on purpose to remain intact to be used in the small bowel. So most people tolerate the peppermint much better than they have if they take in oil. Okay. Let's see.

We did that one. Oh my gosh. You guys have such great questions. Okay. Beth, I am a sufferer about to come off an elemental diet in 2 more weeks.

Bless your heart. Would doctor Brown recommend his IGY and Atratil afterwards or Atratil Pro to kick it support gut afterwards? So I'm yeah. That's yeah. That one's a little bit overlap, So there's no discount on that.

I do on my website. I have what I call a Siebecker support box Sarna I have a Tron tool pro. That is for the people that are really, that have really, really, really suffered and it's a little bit pricey. My suggestion is to first load up on Siobhan's discount here because I don't print any discounts on my website. Yeah.

I just put it in the chat. Okay. Let's see. Do the beneficial effects on the microbiome last long or dissipate even after taking the 6 capsules for 30 or more days? Okay.

That's a great question because what we're learning is is that the microbiome is constantly in flux. According to the studies that doctor Molina did, she said within 28 days, you can have this positive effect. Now the question would be, how quickly will that go away if you don't sleep, eat bad, take antibiotics? You can disrupt it pretty quick. So it's kind of a maintenance type thing.

Okay. What do you suggest if someone has die off after one dose of 2 capsules? That's a little unusual. And so if you have a die off after after 2 capsules, it could be that depending on what your symptoms Mark. We don't see as much die off as we used to when we were talking about it quite a bit more thinking that die off was there.

My suggestion is it could be to take it with food, Take one capsule with food, see how you tolerate it. There are people that are just sensitive to some of the ingredients, and you never know. It's not really an allergy. It just could be you got a really sensitive stomach. Do you see a relationship between menopause and bloating?

Oh, yes. Because there is we see relationships with bloating in any hormone shift. We do know that hormone shifts can actually affect the motility. And once the motility is affected, then that can lead to these different things. So as you go through perimenopause and menopause or even during various cycles of the month, you can actually have some shifts that affect the motility.

So, yes, there is some correlation. Okay. Right. Alright. What about TRULANCE?

So TRULANCE is somewhat similar to LINZESS. Mhmm. They are secretagogues, meaning that they actually draw water into the colon and they work very similar. My my results with both of those are it's a really mixed bag. I don't it's certainly there's not a real home run that we have for constipation, like, one drug that is the is the winner of all of them.

And so TRULANCE, TRULANCE and LINZESS are very similar. There's a new one out called, IBS rella or ibs rella. That one works by blocking the sodium channel. They all work the same way. They try and draw water into the intestines.

They don't necessarily make the motility better. It just kinda increases the fluid in your colon. Send proof of purchase tonight, to info at cbosos dotcom if you've purchased with my link, and we will get you the extra class. What about Motegrity? And that'll be our last one.

We're we're just literally out of time, and you guys are amazing with your questions. So yeah. So I'm I'm a huge fan of Moltegrity. Doctor Pimentel has been discussing prucalipride, which is the generic name where he was using in Canada for a very long time. I struggle to get it from my patients because insurance companies will not pay for it.

I use 1 to 2 milligrams at night that stimulates the 5 HT 4 receptor. One caveat is that I do notice that because it is a serotonin agonist that I do have patients that will have unusual dreams, I will have some patients that will have mood issues after taking it for a long time. I love it for the migrating motor complex and I wish I could give it to everybody. The other the best one was an old drug called Xelnorm that got taken off the market. Xelnorm was did very similar.

It was a 5 HT 4 agonist. So You know, Xelnorm didn't get it came back to the market. It came back on for a second, and then the company that bought it shelved it. They just said, oh, we're not making any money. So they just kinda put it on the shelf.

Yeah. It came back on for, like, 3 months, and then it was gone again. I have a bunch of it. Do you really? I do.

I do. I love but I love, Motegrity. So, anyway Yeah. I I don't wanna keep you any longer. Thank you so much for your generous time.

We really appreciate you. Thank you, everybody. Okay. More Thank you, everyone, for joining. This is, those are great questions.

Very educated audience. Thank you so much. They're so smart. I'm so sorry we weren't able to get to more, but we did answer 82. I'm angry.

My mic didn't work. That's, I like talking into the mic. You did great. You did great as always. Thank you all so much.

I hope you feel better. I hope that you try it, and it works beautifully for you. Don't give up. Hang in there. There are answers.

Come to cbosos.com. Get the book, Healing SIBO. It's the cheapest way to get a ton of of protocol information. And what is your podcast, sir, please? We got the gut check project.

Me and and if you guys don't know know Eric Reger, Eric was my CRNA. We put a bunch of people to sleep together, and him and I worked together and the we the podcast is just, a lot of this stuff. We try to cover health issues, sometimes some fun issues, sometimes some whatever. Whatever's on the mind. It's just sort of a it's a passion project.

We both like it. Well, we like you. We love you so much. Thank you. Thanks, everybody.

Have a great night. Take care, everyone. Thank you. Good night. Thank you.

Bye. Take care, everybody.

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