Enzymes, HCL, and Tributyrin with Steven Wright and Shivan Sarna

Course Content

9.16.24 How to Calm Racing Thoughts and Soothe Panic Naturally with Steve Wright
49:56
How to Improve Food Reactions and Your Brain with Steve Wright 8.13.24
1:03:34
Is Your Body Secretly Suffering from Leaky Gut? with Steve Wright 6.13.24 at 3pm ET
53:04
Are your gut problems the result of this missing molecule? with Steven Wright 5.14.24 at 3pm ET
1:12:44
Is histamine toxicity driving your gut and health problems? with Steven Wright 4.22.24 at 3pm ET
55:43
How to Stop Allergies Before They Start or Healing the Root Cause of Your Allergies with Steven Wright March 2024
Sleep Better, Be Well with Steven Wright February 2024
53:05
How Your Microbiome is Linked to Gas and Bloating and How to Optimize Your Gut with Steven Wright 1.9.24 @ 3pm ET
57:55
Holiday Indulgences: How to Have It All with Engineered Health Hacks with Steven Wright 11.6.23 @ 3pm ET
58:31
Magnesium Revisited: Is Magnesium Really Needed? with Steven Wright 10.16.23 @ 3pm ET
58:48
Tired of a Limited Diet and Food Fear? Get Empowered with Steven Wright 9.13.23 @ 3pm ET
58:30
Relieve Constipation Naturally: Fiber, Movement, and More with Steven Wright 8.7.23 @ 3pm ET
55:28
What if You Could Bulletproof Your Gut Once and For All? with Steven Wright 7.10.23 @ 3pm ET
49:38
Why Your Gut Problems are Ruining Your Sleep and How to Fix It with Steven Wright 6.19.23 @ 3pm ET
1:00:44
Bloating, Constipation, and Beyond with Steven Wright 5.15.23 @ 3pm ET
Probiotics, Prebiotics, and Paraprobiotics: A 101 Lesson with Steven Wright 4.10.23 @ 3pm ET
58:48
The Quickest Way to Have Gut Breakthrough with Steven Wright 3.13.23 @ 3pm ET
50:28
The Real Leaky Gut Map Revealed with Steven Wright 2.6.23 @ 3pm ET
55:44
How to Eat What You Want This Holiday Season with Steven Wright 11.7.22
52:14
Magnesium and the Gut with Steven Wright 10.16.22
45:54
Breaking the Cycle of Food Elimination: When Less Is Not More With Steven Wright 8.8.22
1:08:12
Magnesium Wars: Is Magnesium Really Needed? with Steven Wright 7.18.22
1:01:45
Strong vs. Smart Immune Responses: 5 Immune System Misfires and How to Avoid Them with Steven Wright 6.27.22
49:30
Leaky Gut: How to Know if You Have It and the 4 Top Ways to Treat It 5.10.22
1:08:28
How TRIBUTYRIN-X™ Improves Leaky Gut and Motility with Steven Wright 4.28.22
5 Root Causes for Bloating and What to Do About It with Steven Wright 3.28.22
49:33
How to Improve Your Digestion With Steven Wright 2.7.22
58:22
5 Ways To Make Yourself More SIBO Resistant with Steven Wright 1.10.22
1:00:15
An Overview of TRIBUTYRIN-X™ with formulator, Steven Wright
An Overview of HoloZyme™ with formulator, Steven Wright
42:17
An Overview of HCL Guard+™ with formulator, Steven Wright

1:03:34

Alright. Hi. I'm Siobhan Sarna. I'm the founder of Chronic Condition Rescue. I'm the founder of SIBO SOS, and I've done 11 summits on all kinds of topics, everything from the microbiome to the fascia, lymph, certainly SIBO and IBS multiple times.

I've interviewed people from all over the world and all different kinds of conditions. Lots of things were wrong with me about 6, 7 years ago, and therefore, I went on a quest to get the answers. I was not coming from a place that no one knew what was wrong with me. I knew that there were people who could help me, and I went out to find them. And then I made this vow within all of that, which was I will share what I learned.

So here we Mark, 6, 7 years later, I'm doing great. And one of my dear friends and one of the first people I turned to because I followed him online for so many years before I even had the lucky chance to meet him, is Shivan Wright. He is an engineer by trade. He is and I'm not even gonna call him a health hacker, Siebecker because this doesn't give him credit at all. He is, one the brightest people I know when it comes to gut health and comes to research and finding out answers that are not mainstream.

He has created his own, supplement line that is very niche, very specialized, things that were not in the market that he wanted and, that he's vetted. And he's gonna talk to us today about histamine and a couple of critical things that we all need to know. And if you have heard of, like, mass cell activation syndrome, MCAS, MCAS, and maybe you're already, like, down that rabbit hole or you're just getting started because you have a lot of swelling, allergies, brain fog. I'm really glad you're here today. Okay.

So with that, I'm gonna hand things over to Shivan Wright. Hello, sir. Hey, Siobhan. Thanks for having me. Glad to have you here.

Alright. So, Steven, can you help us? Do you have a presentation, or do you wanna just, let me ask you all my massive questions? Listen. I I didn't have a chance to do a presentation for today.

I could I could share my screen maybe at some point, but, but, otherwise, there's no sexy sexy slide deck. You are certainly more than enough. Okay. So could you define for everyone at home, what is, like, MCAS Sarna what is histamine? And then sort of the the constellation of issues that can come from having it be out of balance.

Yes. I think histamine is, one of the most still underlooked aspects of gut health and overall health and healing. Like, there's been a lot of amazing progress in the last 10 years in in all different areas of of healing chronic conditions, but I think histamine still hasn't quite had its full day in the light. And I happen to be somebody who was Sarna with it, and it was in denial of it. I didn't want it to be a thing.

And the more I've dove into it the last few years, the more it's it's just been, dang. There it is again, and there it is again. So, let's just start with histamine. Like, histamine is what? Well, it I like to think of it as a hormone just because the way it acts, but you could also it's more like a neurotransmitter.

And, with hormones or neurotransmitters, what you want is you want just enough, not too much or not too little. Like, if you have way too much dopamine, you get ticks, and you get, mental health conditions. If you have way too low of of dopamine, you also have issues. Julianne, are you having a hard time hearing me or or Siobhan? Because I I do I do experience, Siobhan, your audio a little low today.

Speak up. I'll scooch up and speak up. Yeah. So, anyways, so histamine, too little of it, and you will have disease. You will feel bad, and too much of it, you will have disease, and you will feel bad.

And so histamine's not the problem. Histamine's not a bad guy. You know, everybody who made estrogen into a bad guy over the last 2 decades, like, shame on them. Estrogen's not a bad guy. Testosterone's not a bad guy.

It's just, like, cortisol even. We we need the proper amounts. And when it gets out of balance or the equation, which we'll talk more about today, gets out of proportions, then it's easy to blame that one thing. And so I wanna make sure we all grab our histamine and hug our histamine today. We're not an antihistamine group, but we do need to understand, how to work with your genetics, your lifestyle, and your your sort of microbiome and what's happening inside your gut when when it comes to histamine.

So you can actually heal and get get over whatever you're trying to whether you're trying to reintroduce foods and just have a normal, you know, life again, whether you're in the throes of a flare right now and you're trying to get out of that, you can barely, you know, get through the day. I think there'll be something here for you whatever state you're in today. So when we when we open up the histamine bucket, there's histamine intolerance, and there's mast cell activation syndrome. And those are, like, the 2 ends of the spectrum. Just like we have, you know, like, non functioning autism on one end, and then we have, you know, maybe high functioning Asperger's on the other end.

It's a it really is a range and a spectrum. But that being said, there are specific tests you can get done for mast cell activation. I am not a mast cell expert. You can just Google that, and there's a number of of tests. They're they Mark hard to get.

There's not a simple formula for this. It's more like a diagnosis of exclusion. If you have a number of factors, then they're like, okay. I think you make the criteria for mast cell activation. And what that basically means in a nutshell is that mast cells are the primary way that histamine is released and your mast cells are overreactive.

They are hyper vigilant to your everyday life. So when the pollen changes, when you change environments in houses and cars, when you eat different foods, your mass cells are too vigilant compared to a normal and healthy person. And so there's lots of things we can do, and that's part of that's actually part of the histamine equation. So we'll talk about that. And then the histamine intolerance folks, are usually more classified as, like, you have a a histamine breakdown issue.

Like, you're you're not able to, break down as much histamine as a normal person would in response to food usually, but it's also in response to pollen and, again, everyday life. And so people who have histamine issues, it reads like a laundry list for almost everything. Like, if you type these symptoms in, I'm sure Google is gonna tell you cancer. But underneath cancer, then you'll start to be like, wait. Do I have IVF, or do I have histamine intolerance?

Do I have, you know, fibromyalgia, or do I have histamine intolerance? And the the answer is typically it's all connected, and it's like, it's a connection. And so some people who have histamine issues, they have, all your traditional allergy related things. They have stuffy nose. They have, racing heart.

They have flushness in the skin. They have other, eczema and other sort of rashes and skin related things. They have breathing problems. Asthma is highly connected. They have fogginess in the brain and other sort of brain related issues.

But a lot of other people just experience, like, gut related things. It could be diarrhea or constipation or just pain. And it and the cool thing and the crazy thing is that it's related to car sickness, motion sickness. It's related to fibromyalgia, ADHD. The list is everywhere almost.

Not everywhere. Like, I don't know that there's a bone connection, but maybe there is. Like, there's there's all these crazy connections because histamine is a it's a neurotransmitter, basically. And it's going everywhere, signaling all over the place. And so it would make sense that based on your genetics, your lifestyle, your micronutrient status, your gut status, that you might have an issue in your skin and motion sickness.

And I experience, some stuffy nose and, and then I I get, all all stuffy if I have, like, wine or beer. And so we're 2 different bodies, 2 different sets of health. Do you think do you think it causes irritability? Oh, totally. Yeah.

Okay. Totally. Just covering that. So the thing is is that what you wanna do is to help get it in balance. You don't want it to be underactive.

Right? Just like inflammation. If you're injured, you want it to be appropriate and to help you because it's rushing to that injury. So to, you know, bring the right things to it and that kind of and protect it. So, Steven, what what what do you what can we do?

Is this a diet thing? Is it what what can we do to help balance this out in all that you just were talking about? And guys and gals and people, could you please put your questions into the into the q and a box for me? I'm by myself. I don't have an admin with me today.

So if you could put it into the q and a box, it would really help. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. So there there's a there's a there's, like, a state of health of your body. There's a genetic component to it.

There's a there's a mutation called AOC 1, and there's 3, different variants of it, I believe. The the studies are still kinda pouring out as to, like, which ones are the worst and how bad are they. My read of the research so far is, like, what you find is 75 to 80% of all the conditions in which histamine is highly correlated, and then, an enzyme called diamine oxidase is used to help with those conditions, those folks display these genetic variants. Sarna what's crazy about that is that's saying that 20 to 25 percent of people who could still have and and still do say they suffer with histamine issues don't have the genes that say they're bad at breaking down histamine. And so I think that's really important and actually good.

Like, that's a good sign. And it what it says is your genetics don't tether you to to an outcome. There's a lot of lifestyle things that are working with you and against you. And so there's a whole list of drugs that if you are on prescription drugs, they are gonna block your, ability to break down histamine. So, again, histamine's made every day.

Every time actually you make stomach acid, histamine is one of the main signaling molecules to make stomach acid. So we don't wanna get rid of our histamine. As you know, I've done, like, 15 years worth of shows on how important stomach acid is for you. And so, I am pro stomach acid. I am pro the right amount of histamine for that, for that reason.

But we need to break it down properly. And there's 2 ways we break it down. Dimine oxidase is the main way that happens in your gut and the tissues surrounding your gut. And then more in the central nervous system, So DAO can go peripherally, meaning, like, not central nervous system. And then in the central nervous system, it's methylenetransferase, h, HNMT enzyme.

And so DIO is the the primary way, and DIO is a, a brush border enzyme, a small intestine brush border enzyme. And so if you're someone with SIBO, a condition which causes inflammation in your brush border, in your small intestine, it would be very easy to make the logical leap that you might have a DAO deficiency on a regular basis while you go through the SIBO, phase of healing your body. And it doesn't matter if you have genetics or not. You could be deficient in that DIO. But if you're also taking certain blood pressure meds and other sort of, meds, you can just Google a list of, sort of histamine blocking meds or DAO blocking meds.

It's a it's a quite long list. Those meds plus alcohol, plus inflammation in your small intestine, and it's very easy for you to end up in a state where you're making normal amount of histamine to food, to life, but you cannot break it down, and therefore, you suffer. And so what you could do then is you could modify and remove things that are causing more histamine than others, and that includes things like fermented foods, alcohol, especially beer and wine and champagne. Anything fermented, includes basically all cheese, all milk. It includes any sort of, cured meats.

And then some of the worst vegetables are avocados, tomatoes, and eggplant. And so you could go on a low histamine diet, but, I think that it becomes a thing where you're, again, chasing your tail. You end up in scarcity when on a low histamine diet just like you do on many of the low FODMAP diets or whatever where you get hypervigilant about what you're eating when it's all a scale. And if you just focus on the the 20% of the foods that are the worst and just remove those, which also includes fish, which which sucks. Right?

Like so I've listed fish, avocados, tomatoes. You know, these are, like, really healthy foods. But if you're someone who makes either too much histamine or the right amount of histamine but does not break histamine down well, removing these foods while you figure out how to reduce your histamine bucket will provide you symptom relief. And then the goal will be, okay. How do we get our small intestine healthy enough to make enough DAO to just be a normal human?

Because there's frankly nothing wrong with fermented foods and and fish and avocados. Like, those are healthy foods. Okay. So I hope you guys can hear me. Some of you can.

Some of you can't. I don't Sarna really scream at my computer, but I am kind of frustrated with it, because I haven't done anything differently. So sorry about the volume on my part. No, Shivan. I know you're you're not asking questions.

I'm just we just usually don't chat during the, during the presentation. You may have come in late and didn't hear me make that request. Just because there's a lot of people with brain fog here, and they can't resist the urge to look in the chat. So I get it. Please put any, comments, questions, or concerns that you have in the q and a box so Steven can address them when we're done with this part of the conversation.

And, actually, I'd like to ask you a couple of questions that are in the q and a Yeah. If I may. Can histamine intolerance be related to the food sensitivities? And when we remove all the foods, we are sensitive, will the histamine reduce? Which you just addressed.

Yeah. So so food sensitivities and histamine related issues are to completely, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Like, trying to tease them apart can literally make you go mad. And that's where I get I'm just over this whole exclusion of everything, exclusion of all histamine foods, exclusion of all FODMAPs, exclusion of all salicylates, exclusion of all whatever. Like, it's just a never ending exclusion scarcity mindset, and the truth is there are an 80 20 principle you could apply.

You could remove the foods that are the worst offenders, and that should provide you some symptom relief. What is not talked about and, you know, part of what my platform is about is that just because you remove them does not mean healing happens. It does not mean when you go to add them back in. Can't hear me. I hope you heard that.

Just because you removed them does not mean that healing happens. That's so important, Steven. I just Sarna take a beat and really think about that, because we get so frustrated. We've done the elimination diet. We've removed all of these things, and I'm better.

Right? Because there's still things that need to happen. And I see this all the time with Siebecker, where there I fixed my diet. I did a low fermentation diet. My SIBO is not better.

That's because you still need, in that case, reduce the over overgrowth. So that's a super, super important nuance to use as a filter for your thinking. Like, all these webinars I do, all these summits that I do, I'm really trying to get everyone to take this knowledge and apply it to their thinking. Right? So you can use these as filters for the future.

So, Steven, what percentage of DAO might be considered deficient, or does it even work like that? Like, and that's be about the differences in DAO if you would. So if you're not in the US, if you're in the UK, there's some there's some, like, at home DAO testing kits you can get. In the US, it's extremely hard still. I have not found an option that I can I mean, if I had it, I would be I'd be spending way too much money just playing around trying to figure it out?

So right now, DAO levels in your blood fluctuate very often. And so they're trying to figure out how how reliable of a test is this Sarna how do we use it appropriately in the research studies. And so there's no way to say, like, oh, I'm operating at a 100% DAO capacity, or I'm at 50% DAO capacity. You just kinda have to, like, look around you. Do you have seasonal allergies?

Do you have breathing and asthma related issues? Do you have skin issues? Do you have food sensitivities? Do you have unexplained tachycardia or other motion sickness related things? Do you have focusing problems, irritability, and ADHD?

If you start to tick off some of these boxes, and then you go and you're like, alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna play with this. Go have, cook some fish, eat some sauerkraut, and, have tomatoes with it. And if you feel terrible, then you're having a problem breaking down histamine. And so you could potentially be helped from a DAO supplement, and or in the time being, you might wanna avoid some of those high, high histamine foods.

And the you know, what we'll get to is, like, we want to repair the small intestine. Right? We wanna repair the capacity to clear, histamine in the body, and we also wanna stop the mast cells from being overreactive. Like, we want them to be there's no way to test, like, how overreactive or how vigilant are my mass cells. There's not a test for that yet.

Egg if they're kind of again sandwiched together. And so if you can do things like quercetin, which is a mass cell stabilizer, or luteolin or curcumin or resveratrol, these are all mass cell stabilizers, and they can help be a, like, a weighted blanket or a hub for your mast cells. Trivedore Next is also one of my favorite mast cell stabilizers. And so we can use these in combination to give our mast cells a hug, let them know they don't have to be so vigilant, and then we can also take things like DAO, to reduce or increase the breakdown of histamine, and then you can focus on how do we get here in the first place? Do you still have an active Siebecker infection?

A SIFO infection? Do you have mold? Do you know, what do you have? And so that's kind of the game we end up playing so that you can again adopt like, you can reintroduce those foods rather than just doing the exclusion diet and then being, you know, misled by, I think, well meaning doctors and influencers and experts that somehow you're gonna magically heal all that stuff I just talked about. So, Rosalyn, thanks for asking.

What is DAO? Let's connect the dots because you said the big name, and then we started calling it DAO. So thanks for helping us with that, Rosalyn. So diamine oxidase, it's a brush border enzyme made in your small intestine. And, it's made in those little villi.

You've heard about the little villi. So, like, for instance, if you have celiac disease, you probably for sure have a DAO deficiency just because your your inflammation levels in your small intestine are super high. And so the shorthand for that is DAO. And we can talk about why certain people have already said in the chat that they've tried DAO and it didn't work, because that was my experience for 10 years as well and why I have not talked about this topic until the last year. Okay.

The other thing I just wanna I hope you can hear me. The other thing I just wanna mention is being read, r e d. So that is also a sign that I have noticed consistently for people who have mass cell activation syndrome and histamines. If you have a little bug bite, right, it gets red. Those are like histamines coming in to help.

And I'm you know, my husband and I went to breakfast actually with doctor Tom O'Brien once. He was in Florida for a conference. We went and met him. He's so nice. And somehow, we started talking about David's health.

And, bless doctor Tom. He was like, well, you know, you are very red. And, like, we David and I looked at each other because we had never really made that observation. But, indeed, David was quite red, and it wasn't from a sunburn. So and also think about what happens when you burn and you turn red.

These are the histamines trying to help. Right? So that's another thing. If you're like, oh, I'm not sure. Do you feel like you're kinda have that redness to yourself, to your skin?

Okay. Yeah. Another one is headaches and migraines. So, you know, my my wife, Shay, has had headaches on and off, and bless her. I try to experiment on her as often as I can with all types of substances that I'm excited about.

She doesn't love that as much as I do. But I was like, look. I have researched this. There's so much literature on migraines and DAO deficiency. Just try this DAO product, and let's see if you get less this whole month.

And she's like, alright. Probably not gonna work. Anyways, she is now a firm. She's like a true believer. She's like, wow.

This stuff actually where's my DIO? We're going to dinner. Where's my DIO? Well, I know. Okay, Jim.

Take care. We sorry to lose you. Steve's saying the important stuff today is used. But I wanna say that, it's so unusual to have something if you're if you are really sick to have something actually work quickly. Because I know a lot of us, like, we wait.

We take the month to see if the get down to the bottom of the pill barrel. And, you know, we get frustrated, or we just think it's never gonna get better. But so Shay has such a quick experience. Okay. Let's talk about why, like, why you haven't started talking about DAO until the last year, and what makes yours different?

And I did put the information about how to order in the chat, but I have to add the link, and there is a discount for you if you're interested. Okay. Yes. So so I've been so DAO is not a new concept. I mean, this idea of DAO deficiency and DAO supplements have been on the market for over 10 years.

All my attempts to use them as well as the people that I worked with 1 on 1 for many years, it was just hit or miss. Like, the research all said these products should work, but in practice, the products just did not reliably work. And for the people that they work for, they were taking 6 to 10 capsules per meal. And, you know, that's just you have to have a lot of money, to to, you know, take that many. And so I just didn't talk about it.

And, you know, since we've had the supplement company, it's I've been at every show I go to, everywhere I come on the Internet, if I find a new DAO, enzyme manufacturer, I'm always, like, very excited because I was hoping to solve this issue. And that's what happened 2 years ago, is I ran into a company from Spain. These Spanish researchers had been studying DAO for nearly a decade, and they swore that they had a different extraction process than the other companies, a proprietary one, and that they'd also figure out an enteric coating. And so, this got my attention, and it did the same thing I do every single time, which is I get super jazzed. I buy a bunch of product, and then I make my team and, usually, my wife try it and see if anybody notices anything.

And, in this case, it was, like, black and white. Like, people were switching from their other DAO supplements, people who did not have good experiences in the past. DAOs started loving this product, and I actually started noticing it as well. And so what they have that that no one else has is they figured out a few things. The one is DIO is destroyed by oxygen very quickly.

And so, if your DIO comes in a in a, like a like a bottle, we put not every company and not every product is like this. But any product that is, capable of being destroyed by oxygen, they'll put oxygen absorbers in the bottle so that it lasts the full 2 years or whatever it needs to last. As soon as you crack that cap though, the oxygen's gonna come in, and that oxygen absorber is gonna stop working. It only has a defined amount of capacity that it can absorb. And so then the DAO starts getting, reduced pretty quickly.

And so I think there's other well meaning companies out there with the wrong packaging. If you see our product, they're in a blister pack. They're little little little tablets, in a in a blisters, little blister packs like this. And so each one of these is nitrogen packed, and it's fresh until the moment you you actually open it. The only thing that they were able to do is actually coat these in an enteric coating.

And enteric coating means it's completely protected from stomach acid. And so, again, the DAO enzyme is supposed to work in your small intestine. That's where a lot of the histamine action is happening. And, there's other companies with acid resistant delivery technology. But, again, those companies just didn't work for me.

They didn't work for the people I I work with, the people on my team that Mark many people on our team are massive activation people. And and so this company out of Spain, we were able to work with them, get our own packaging, get our own, our own product. And that's where we're you know, that's why I'm talking about it. That's why I'm very excited about it because it's actually a product that's an improvement over the other stuff that's been out there. What if I can't swallow supplements but must open the capsule?

No. It's a tablet. It's just a it's like a mini tablet. It's like the smallest thing you ever seen. Some people actually are really mad because, they're so small, which is, you know, you make a capsule.

I try to put as many milligrams in a capsule. People get pissed at me because they're like, it's a horse pill. Then I make a really small one and they're like, I lose them on the counter. And I'm like, I can't win. Okay.

Yes. You can. Yes. You can. But Does DAO heal the gut lining?

I mean, in a roundabout way, it's Sarna be additive to your entire healing experience. So if you're making too much histamine and not breaking it down, as Siobhan said, histamine is part of the swelling response. It's part of the inflammation response. And so if you're if you're causing extra inflammation on a daily basis, on a regular basis, that's gonna impede healing. Right?

So if we can reduce that and get your body into proper histamine balance, everything is gonna speed up. All your healing, your daily experience is gonna work Siebecker. But in and of itself, it's not like the gut healing product if you will. Can you hear me any better? I switched the mic.

I don't know. Okay. How do you dose DAO? So, this this product, I can only speak for our company. The studies that they've done on humans, they've done, some on gut, like, gut reduction.

So, like, gut pain, constipation, diarrhea, complaints, things like that. A lot of those people just take 1 tablet per meal. If you're someone with fibromyalgia, the fibromyalgia studies are 3 pills 3 times a day, and then the the migraine studies are 4 of the tabs. And so, like, for instance, we have some practitioners who are using the product. They work with headache and migraine people, and what they tell them is take 2, like, every day, with or without food.

And then if you feel a a headache coming on, take 4 immediately, to try to basically knock it off. And so, again, it's very dependent on your own level of DAO production, your own level of histamine production. You kinda have to just play around. Not everybody takes more than 2 a day, but some people need to. Okay.

Can I is it now how is it? Oh, yeah. Is it better? Yeah. Great.

Okay. I'm having inflammatory reactions to dying intestinal parasitic worms. Would your DAO product be helpful for this circumstance? Priscilla has MCAS. Yeah.

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, if you're having histamine symptoms of any type, I would try it I would try it immediately. Again, play with the dose. 2 is the the minimum dose per day, but you could go as high as 4 or 6 a day or 8 even, just to play around and figure out what your dose is.

I would say, again, that's only half the equation. Right? The the DAO supplementation is part of the equation. The other part is is mast cell stabilizing compounds like tributerin, curcumin, resveratrol, luteolin, quercetin. So if you have other supplements on that side, that's when the magic starts to happen is when you when you come at it from multiple angles.

Right. Okay. Shivan, you're saying can you take DAO along with rigatoni? That's a pasta, so I'm not sure if that's what you mean. But, yes, you could.

Could you put it on a swollen bug bite? I mean, I don't think it's gonna hurt you, but I don't I'm no one I don't no one's told me about that yet. So I guess if you do do it and it works, let me know. We do have people who, get attacked by mosquitoes and they get those giant welts. Like, those people that get the giant welts from mosquitoes, like, you have a histamine issue.

You're making too much histamine. And so we do have people that use it when they go to Florida on vacation or whatever, and they're just getting, you know, carried away by mosquitoes. Does low histamine cause overmethylation? I think Janet feels that it does for her. I I mean, maybe?

That's not my area of expertise, so I'm not gonna really give much of an answer on that. Anything's possible, though. Can dizziness have you ever heard of dizziness being related? A 100%. Yep.

Dizziness, motion sickness, you know, especially if you also have a pulse ox or something. Make sure with, you know, dizziness, make sure you're you're checking your, pulse ox as well as your, your, blood pressure. Okay. Can you, this is not butyrin. Can you hold up the pack again?

So the it talks, Steve, so the camera goes to you, at least on my So the, yeah, the histamine harmony box is, 60 little tablets inside this little box. And then, you know, Triveda Nex is the little gel caps. So different different products. Not everybody needs both. This is, like, fast acting for histamine related things.

Like, I personally take it anytime I'm having wine or, beer. I'm I'm really into those nonalcoholic athletic brew company. But if I have more than 1, I have histamine issues. So yeah. Okay.

So do you take it DAO only with histamine meals or 2 daily no matter what you eat? So, again, you have to play around with it. The researchers and the studies are taking it with meals 10, 20 minutes before a meal. I think there's a lot of us who, because part of the histamine load is actually having dysbiotic bacteria in your gut. So if you have inflammation and you have dysbiosis, your gut bugs will be making their own histamine whether or not you eat high histamine Sarna low histamine diet or whatever you do, whether it's springtime or fall time or whatever, your your gut bugs are the wrong mixture and they're making histamine themselves.

And so, there's this concept of a histamine bucket, kinda like an inflammation Siebecker, where if you're if you're always at capacity for your fear of histamine and just, you know, a little bit of a bloom of the grasses or interaction with a cat or a car ride and then boom, You're overflowing with your histamine. You're irritable. You got a headache. You're feeling red. Things like that.

So in those cases with those individuals, we found as a company that just taking them without food also has a impact. But you have to play with it because we've also had plenty of customers write in and say, that was a waste of my time. I I feel so much better when I take it with food. Oh, okay. Can children take it?

Children over over 2, can play with it. You know, they gotta be able to swallow. It is a really mini tablet, and you're not supposed to crush it because it does kind of break apart the enteric coating. Okay. So don't chew it, basically.

Correct. That's crushing it. Okay. Just for the record, I don't know if so I did put the link if you all are interested in picking some up. It is different.

And I've had a lot of conversations with people about DAO over the years, and it definitely is, I'm gonna say brand specific. People have really experienced in the past before Shivan had this, creation that, like, when I would talk to practitioners, they're like, whatever you do, use this kind. And so it really does seem to make a huge difference. So I'm just putting the link in there, in the chat, and the coupon code is cbo s o s to save 15%. Plus if it's over a $125, you have free shipping in the USA.

He does ship overseas. There is shipping for that. Okay. So the dose for children, did you already I mean, it hasn't been specifically tested in a ton of children, so you can't break it apart. So I would just, you know, work with be an adult, work with a practitioner.

If you don't feel comfortable, work with, your pediatrician, but it's gonna be 1, you know, one One one of the little pills. Go ahead and bring the questions over to the to the q and a, if you would, please. I'd really appreciate it. Could GERD that isn't resolved be any of the usual remedies oh, that's not resolved by any of the usual remedies be a histamine problem? In isolation, probably not.

But if you start to take a a stock of your skin tone, your brain, your headaches, you know, all these different things, and, you know, you have seasonal allergies, you start to add up a bunch of symptoms, there could be a histamine connection. But if GERD is not solved by, you know, BT and HCl, low stomach acid stuff, and it's not solved by, acid suppressing medications, you need to go in for an endoscopy. Okay. Right. And nothing we're talking about isn't is a substitution for your doctor's visit or your practitioner, and, you know, we're just giving you some information here.

Okay. Can d o DAO enzyme cause constipation? I gave it to my son who has ADHD, and he became constipated 1 to 2 pills. Have you heard of that before, Steven? No.

Not not with our product. I mean, anything's possible, though, for, you know, for sure. So as I mentioned, you know, histamine production, excess histamine production is related to too fast of bowel movements and too slow bowel movement. So in his body, you know, it could have been a brand specific thing. If it was our product, then, obviously, just write us, and we'll get you your money back.

But, yeah, that's where that's where this stuff is so confusing where you can just go crazy chasing your tail. Does decaf coffee block DAO production? I know it caffeine can block it, but wondering about Swiss water decaf. Also, any major DAO blocking foods to avoid. Right.

So there's an is there a difference between a DAO blocking food and a high histamine food? Yeah. Yeah. So alcohol, alcohol, number 1, is inflammatory to the small intestinal lining so that that, you know, breaks down DAO production. But, also, it it starts to block some of the other enzymes related to DAO production.

So so alcohol is the worst offending, quote, unquote, food. And then, yeah, other things like anything with vinegar. So apple cider vinegar, any fermented foods, kombuchos, things like that are gonna be super, super high histamine. Anything that uses yeast, champagne, wine, beer, those are gonna cause a lot more histamine. If you're splitting hairs between decaf coffee and regular coffee, again, I would not put my focus there.

I don't know if decaf coffee is particularly bad. I've never seen it listed on any study as a bad thing to avoid. I think this is, again, where I'm trying to move people away from that kind of thinking towards. There's gotta be other ways you can optimize your body and and just love up on your your decaf coffee. Review again dosing for DAO.

I'm taking quetadafen and sodium chromolin. Do you think it I also need MCAS, supplementation in addition besides the medication? So he's not your doctor, and those are, prescriptions. So he's just gonna make a comment. Yeah.

So, clearly, you're deep down the rabbit hole, and and you're working with a provider who knows a lot about histamine and and MCAS, and my answer is a 100% yes. They work in combination. Mast cell stabilizers, like I said, your quercetins, your tributorins, and then your DIO supplementation can work in conjunction with those medications, because most anti, well, those aren't necessarily antihistamines. But, anyways, yes. Play around with it.

Be an adult. Okay. Meaning that use your confidence Sarna your intuition, of course. Patrice, histamine intolerance expert gave me enzymes by Loomis Pan. Even though I told her I can never take enzymes without stomach pain, which is exactly what happened.

Her response was in 20 years of practice, I was the first. Can you recommend an enzyme for a sensitive person like me? Well, as a matter of fact, Patrice, yes. He can. Go ahead, Steven.

Yeah. You're not alone, Patrice. This I mean, I've been doing this 15 years, and you're definitely this is not a common thing, but, you know, hundreds of people. Yes. So you can try Holozymes, and we can see if it matters brand to brand.

But if you've already tried several brands of enzymes, then what we're really dealing with here is a mucosal membrane problem. Your, your mucosal membranes are pretty shot. And so any sort of introduction of probably a protease enzyme is going to aggravate you slightly. Now there are a number of ways that I've heard practitioners deal with this. One is that they support your mucosal membranes, and then they tell you to go down to a sprinkle.

And you just sprinkle, and you sprinkle, and you sprinkle until you can tolerate more. Other people will pull you off the enzyme and put you on a whole host of, you know, trying to heal your mucosal membranes, which includes things like checking your hormones, your estrogen levels, your progesterone levels. It includes things like tributerin for for your gut, maybe some, you know, megamucosa or something like that that helps with your your mucosal, healing as well from microbiome labs. So things like that. So should we focus on healing the gut first to see if that resolves the histamine d a DAO issue?

Why not water the lawn? You know, like, help it out. Do it at the same time. Heal your gut, and this should also help. People are asking about the order.

Do we treat SIBO first before starting? Guys, this is like sunshine and water. You can do them all at the same time. Sarna nothing was competitive. Understand it.

Yeah. I totally get it. You don't wanna waste time. You don't wanna waste money. You want the most efficacious and straight line path to feeling better.

Totally get it. And nothing here competes with anything else. It's all auditory or, it's all Additive? Yeah. Meaning that again, I said if you have too much histamine in your gut, you're gonna cause too much inflammation.

Again, too much histamine, it's redness, it's swelling, it's big bug bites, it's tachycardia. It's all these different bad things. That makes it much harder for your immune system to be healthy and eliminate Siebecker, SIFO, whatever the heck you got going on, mold, whatever detox protocol. So anything you do to bring your body into homeostasis while you handle these other real causes, the better you're gonna feel today, tomorrow, the next few months, but also the faster you're gonna heal completely. So this idea that there's, like, an order of operations, I think, I would say, in this case, bring it in right away.

It's kinda like how I think about enzymes and butyrate and things like that. Like, the focus on detox and the focus on killing is misguided because how are you going to confirm or be ready for when you don't have the killing support anymore? If you're just like, oh, I stopped dropping the bombs. Now what happens? Well, what's gonna happen is life is gonna grow into what it was before the bombs came.

So if you're easy to colonize and you got SIBO or you got SIFO or you got a parasite or something, and you don't change the everyday environment inside of your body, You're just setting up the conditions to get reinfected. There you you have to change the environment while you're doing the killing and then after the killing is over. And so not everybody needs hista harmony. Not everybody has a a histamine issue. But for those people who do have low grade issues or these symptoms I'm talking about, you will speed up your healing.

You will just enjoy your life more, which means, guess what? You'll move more. You'll go outside more. You'll have less stress. All these things improve DAO production.

They improve your nervous system function. They will improve your detox. They will improve your killing capacity, your immune status just by being more social. Right? Like, if we have, like I know if if my gut is a wreck, if I don't feel good in my head, if I'm dizzy, I am not gonna say yes to a social event.

Well, we all know that. Yeah. Pickleball. Are you a pickleball champ now? My my husband and I took a pickleball lesson.

Okay. It's, Sarna local community center. We were, like, such good good citizens. We got there at 6. It started to rain at 7:22, and I thank the good lord.

Because I was like, it was great. I loved it, but it was, like, a lot for me to be awesome. And, I haven't played a a racquetball sport in, like, you know, 30 years. So it was a trip. We were hobbling a little the next day.

I won't lie to you, but it was fun. But I was grateful for the rain. Anyway, hi. How does histamine affect the brain and anxiety, etcetera? I don't get allergic reactions, but I do have deficient DAO genes.

So, so there's 4 different types of histamine receptors inside the body. They're h one through h four, and, the main, like, brain related ones, I I believe, are h fours. And, again, the majority of the histamine breakdown inside your brain, your nervous system is gonna come from the the histamine methyltransferase enzyme. There's not a there's not a supplement or a drug for that yet. You can look at some of the micronutrients that are involved in the creation of it.

But what we are seeing is, like okay. So what I just said is I'm repeating science. Right? I'm not the researcher. I'm not dissecting rats.

I'm not doing studies on humans. I'm repeating what the researchers write in the studies. That being said, how is it that they're running studies on humans with ADHD and and other brain related things and getting symptom suppression and symptom improvement? There's gotta be a feedback mechanism up into the brain, that is related to DAO supplementation and histamine circulation in general. And so, for for anybody who's just curious, like, is this related to my anxiety?

Is this related to my, you know, my mind that won't stop racing? All I can say is just try it and try the dosages. And if it doesn't work, at least with our company, you know, you can write us and and and, you know, get your money back. So, it's but it's not a direct linkage. I wish it was as simple.

If there was, it would be a drug. Right? It would be a pharmaceutical option. Right. Okay.

Can high histamines trigger an osteoarthritis flare? Maybe. So maybe. So one thing I do wanna mention that doctor Anne Hill, who works with, with us a lot at CboeSOS, she's done a lot of master classes with us on MCAS. And she did say to me last year that she has noticed that MCAS patients, I don't know how she knows this, but she's brilliant, had an issue with their fibroblasts in their bones.

And, she saw that most of her MCAS patients had osteopenia or osteoarthritis. That's all I wanna say because I don't I'm just, again, repeating something that I heard from a really smart person, so just FYI. Okay. Susan's saying I've been using it, and it's been amazing me. Cannot recommend this product highly enough.

Thank you so much, Susan, for that. Yeah. Thanks, Susan. Are histamine involved with lactose intolerance? A friend in her late seventies all of a sudden has an allergy to tomatoes.

I didn't consider histamine as a contributing factor. Not in the way you think you're you're asking brilliant questions. So this is the beautiful thing about Mark. Yeah. You're you're asking the right questions.

I would so think about what is the what is the same between DAO and histamine issues and lactose intolerance. They're both brush border enzymes. They're both small intestinal brush border enzymes. So DIO will not fix a lactose issue. But if you have a lactose issue, you're probably very close to or are already having a histamine issue because that means something's going wrong inside your brush border.

And so in this case, if the the person is having a tomato issue, they they may be having other issues, and and you could try it, but it won't fix the lactose thing. And Patrice just came into the q and a box. Steven, for clarity, would histoHarmony help with mucosal membrane issues? And second, I think we already answered that. Yeah.

Yeah. We answered this earlier. Like, omega mucosa from Microbiome Labs is more of, like, a direct, but this is, like, fertilizer, sunshine, rain. It makes all the grass grow. Yeah.

Take I would take Tribetron X and Mega Mucosa if you're dealing with a mucosal issue. And you can get that 15% off on the Trbuterin x, but the same link, you can go and see everything. Just keep clicking around and you'll find it. For someone with severe food and environmental allergies, which of your products, in addition to DAO, would you ideally recommend? Again, if you're someone who cannot tolerate any supplements at all, my late friend, Beth O'Hara, had a, nervous system system course, and, she did a lot of, I think, really good work for the mast cell and histamine community on saying, like, look.

If you cannot tolerate regular things, curcumin, fish oil, quercetin, things like this, your nervous system is where you need to to repattern first. And so if you're if you're past that, if you can do supplements, I would say, Tributeronex is one of the best the best things, but I would also make sure you're taking mast cell stabilizing compounds that I've mentioned, quercetin, curcumin, resveratrol, those types of things. Okay. So that specific histamine protocol, Peter, that you're asking about, at least a list of suggested support supplements, you've been mentioning a list of the foods, to avoid. Actually, go to Beth O'Hare's site, mass what is it?

Masssell 360 dot masscel 360.com. For those of you who have followed her work for years, she is brilliant, brilliant being that really helped so many thousands of people. She did recently pass away, and I'm sure that they would appreciate any the family would appreciate any support you can share on the site or, you know, picking up one of the courses or something like that. I do not know that anything else. That's all I know.

Okay. Do you have a so that's what I'm gonna tell you about that. Peter, she's got phenomenal stuff there. Barbara, I understand that interstitial cystitis can be related to histamine issues. IC is mast cell, I believe.

Would that indicate a histamine issue is mast cell, or is that too simplistic? Or, Steven, is it like the sun is shining, so it's a weather weather report? Like, they're Well, they're definitely related, And but but interstitial cystitis can also it can be a whole different ballgame of infections inside the bladder wall and some other things. So, again, highly related, probably comorbidities, meaning they coexist oftentimes in similar bodies, but but we'll probably need 2 different protocols. Man, I wish I could remember this lady's name, Ruth.

No. No. I got it. I got it. MicroGen DX.

You wanna go and find that test, and it's living UTI free. And it's like it's not Ruth Chris, but it's something like that. But Liv UTI free or something like that, and they have gone down like, with doctor Allison Siebecker placebo, they are to interstitial cystitis. So and the MicroGenDx is a lab that will test for a whole host of things that your typical, your urologist does not test for, typical UTI doesn't test for. I'm doing a menopause summit next year, and I'm hoping to get some speakers from there because they really have the bladder health in great shape.

So I hope that helps you. It's Ruth. Ruth Chris. Yeah. She's a she's a we've done some calls together.

She's a she's a awesome woman. She's, like, 90, and she's doing, like, Olympic weightlifting and pulling Oh, really? 225 pound deadlift. She's a cool woman. Can you hook me up with her for the menopause side?

Yes. Absolutely. Talk to her? Yeah. Send me a link.

I'll get you. Okay. I appreciate it. Okay. Okay.

He mentioned food is a fish to avoid, but just mentioned fish oil is helpful. Yeah. So, Breathe. We all have to eat. Food is not just nutritional, like, micronutrients and macronutrients.

It's emotions. It's feelings. It's society. It's connections. Food is much more than just how inflammatory is it.

Is it right for my gut or not right for my histamine or whatever? If you are in a phase of your life where you're like, I eat food. I have reactions. I have to go lay down on the couch. I have tachycardia.

I have flushing. You should understand your body's relationship to the foods you're consuming. In this case, you would you would want to be very intentional, eat some fish, and see how you feel. We can all, I think, agree that if we were stacking foods on a list of most nutritional, least inflammatory, best idea for you, without context for the human body and the human that's going to absorb it or eat it or digest it, fish would be at the top of it's awesome. Like, it's awesome.

But when we bring it into the context of someone's emotions, their body, their their health status, for some people, FISH will derail the rest of their day. It will give them a migraine. It will put them on the couch with tachycardia. And you need to figure that out for yourself. This idea that one food is bad or one food is good is just bullshit, and it also should change as you heal.

So in the phase of mass cell activation and histamine intolerance, fish might be off the table for you. Fermented foods will be off the table for you. But as you use mast cell stabilizer, as you use DAO, as you work on your nervous system, as you fix your butyrate levels, as you maybe find mold or some sort of infection and you get rid of them, you should be able to reintroduce those very valuable and highly nutritious foods because there's nothing wrong with them. It's just that right now for you, it is not an option. So this idea that there's a black and white list of of histamine foods or or IBS foods or fermentable foods.

They're characteristics. But don't just believe them. Otherwise, you'll be like a ton of people on my email list. And this has happened since I've actually started in 2010. People come to me when they can only eat 3 foods, 5 foods, 7 foods.

You do not wanna get there because the way out of that is very hard and it's very long. And so this idea of just I'm gonna overlay that with the low histamine diet, and then I'm gonna cut out all those foods. That will lead you in the direction of 7 foods, 5 foods. And digging out of that hole is something that I help people with. I do specialize in that, unfortunately, But I would like to prevent people from ending up there because it's much easier to get well if you never get there.

Right. So, you know, if you're just, like, on this bell curve of just getting started with this, you know, dealing with elimination diets and on enzymes and all of this, Shivan you read the advice and you hear the advice, like, to do these limiting things, and you haven't limited anything ever before, it sounds like a really good idea. And in some cases, certain amounts of it are a good idea. It means a 100%. So then when you're on the other side of the bell curve, you're in it 3, 4 years, and you're still living super limited diet.

It it and the hypervigilance has taken over, and you're not well yet. Right, and you're, like, in that state of hopelessness and your microbiome hasn't been diversified in years, this is what Steven is talking about. It's like, where are you in all of it using your common sense, following your intuition, being patient and testing, not overeating that food that you know is, like, really not great for you, using it as, like, test. I mean, it's it's a practice. It really is.

It's a very, very big practice, and it takes a lot of time, energy. I mean, I've always said having SIBO is like having a part time job because you know? But it doesn't have to be, and that's what we're here for, is to make it easier and to learn from everything we've gone through. And, yes, Steven and I have been super hypervigilant before, so that's why we're sensitive to it because we know that that hell that it can be. Okay.

Alright. What about gluten? Yes. Doctor Tom O'Brien, and he is gonna tell you that people who eat gluten gluten have a higher probability of dying. So that is his research and experience and his, like, drop the mic moment.

So and you go to other countries, and they have a different kind of gluten. People go to Europe. They they do so much better. They can eat bread. What do you say about that, Steven?

Oh, we only have about 4 more minutes, so I'll whip through some more of these questions. Look. Look. Gluten is is fucking delicious. Let's just say it.

Let's call it what it is. It's in everything. It's ubiquitous. And I started being gluten free in 2009, way before all this, and it was so Sarna. And I was so concerned about every microscopic amount of it.

And you should understand what gluten is. You should understand where it comes from, what foods it's in. You know, wheat, barley, and rye, gluten is not in oats. Gluten is not in corn. These are different types of of proteins that can be hard for some people to break down.

But you should understand what it is. And I would say, in general, if if health is your number 1 or number 2 value, I would expect you to come to the conclusion after you read doctor Tom's research, after you read the actual research out there, that you're gonna mostly avoid gluten for the rest of your life. That's that's that's just the best answer. But do I do that? No.

You're dang right that if I go out to a restaurant and I'm with my family, like I was just back in Michigan where gluten is still somehow not made it into the lexicon there. They don't know what it is. I'm gonna take extra precautions. I take, like, 6 holozymes, and I prepare for the gluten that I'm going to be exposed to, and I minimize the reaction to it. Right.

Because there are options on how to be, again. Food is not just toxins and nutrients and chemicals. It's it's feelings. It's socialness. It's emotions.

And in that case, it's healthier for me to have a little gluten, have it in pizza with a ton of holozymes and HCL and other products, and be not the guy who's like, do we have to go to that restaurant? But knowing that there's no other restaurant to go to. It's not like there's actually a good option. There's all bad options. And I just don't wanna burden my family with that because I did that for years.

I didn't participate in Thanksgiving. I didn't participate in Christmas. I made my own everything, and I don't know that I was healthier for it, frankly. Right. Yeah.

I'm with you. Okay. We, needed to make a Shivan, very, very, rarely do we ever cuss in these, so he just had a moment. What is your source of DAO, animal or vegetable? It is it is from pork.

It is animal. Okay. The, the vegetable ones, I don't I don't I don't advise any of the vegetable versions on the market Okay. For a number of reasons. If you are gonna do this, just simply read the packet because on the back of the packet will have dosage information and when to use it and all of that.

And then, also, Shivan has a remarkable Facebook group. Once you have purchased things from him, you get a link to you don't have to do it. It's just an option for you. You can get into the Facebook group where he has coaches, and they do help you with specific questions within the group. Now what I didn't talk about earlier, it is 4 PM EST.

I do need to wrap this up, and I wanna say thank you all so much for coming. Would you put some love into the chat for Steven? Because he really, as you know, preaches the heart and soul and everything. I get a little I get a little tuned up. So It's all good.

It's it's hopefully it's hopefully just from love. So whether you're just starting and you do need to do a a elimination diet or or you're, you know, you're 6 months into that, and it's time for you to start to do an abundance diet. Yeah. Don't an abundance diet. I like that.

Don't leave yet because I, you know, when I don't have the help, I tend to get too focused on the other things. So hold on. I have if you all just have already made a purchase today from Steven, through our link, then we have a bonus for you. If you send your proof of purchase, you have to do this. You can't just write us and say, yeah.

I bought something because people were starting to abuse it. But it's info@sebosos.com. And if you order anything from Steven with our link, between now and 5 PM EST, please email us at info@cbosos.com, and this will be worth it for you because we have a bonus for you. Let me find Shivan. And it is standby.

Let me see if I can pull this off. There you go. It is oh, this is a good one. This is a good one. It was part of, a summit that I did, and it is, what is mass activation mass cell activation syndrome with Heidi Turner, who really specializes in this as a, registered dietitian.

It was a brilliant conversation, and I think it will be super, super helpful for you. So be sure to order within the next hour. Email us at, info at cbosos with your proof of purchase, and we will give you the link to that. There you go. I'm gonna do info at, info at fibosos again.

Info@sibosos.com again. Okay. Steven, thank you so much. Well, thank you, Siobhan. Thank you everybody for the love and the chat.

I appreciate y'all. I do love the four letter word that starts with an f, but I understand other people don't. Yeah. You know? So that's all good.

That's all good. It hardly ever happens. The goal the goal with our products, the goal with our company is you all have complex bodies. I have no idea your medical history. We are not your doctors.

And I would get so mad, when I would get hopeful about a product, buy it, and not get support around dosing it. And and I didn't know at the time that maybe I needed to double or triple the dose or take half the dose. And then even after I did that, they wouldn't give me my money back, and I and I was left wondering, you know, what did I do wrong? And, also, there goes another $50. There goes another $80.

There goes another $100. And so at Healthy Gut, we have US based certified Allison health coaches. They have all kinds of other certifications, and they're there. They're on the phones. You can have a anybody who buys a product, it's a free one on 1, session to educate you about that product or the products you bought.

We have the Facebook group, which is 3,000 plus people who are hyperactive and trying to help each other with these these issues. And then at the end of the day, if it just doesn't work, you know, minus shipping and handling, we're we're gonna give you your money back because we want you to get well. You know, we want you to take that money and go apply it somewhere else. And what's the window of time for that? It's not we're not talking about a year later.

We're talking about it, within 30 days. 60 days. Yeah. We Okay. You know?

We hope generous. Yeah. We hope you try it. Do get this home and don't let it go into your supplement graveyard. Actually, try it because it is so effective for so many people.

And I know what that's like. You get it, and you just let it sit there. Don't do that. Try it. So if you do need your money back, you can get it back, and you're not, like, dealing with that deadline and all that.

And, plus, we want you to be well. That's the whole point. Okay, everybody. Thank you so much. It's so good to have you here.

I'm sorry. We just had, like, 3 or 4 questions I couldn't get to, today. But we thank you very, very much for being here, and we will catch you next time. Thanks, everybody. Okay.

Thank you all. Enjoy.

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